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Transloading

This page contains references and links to all electronic communications among City staff, and between City staff, Norfolk Southern, and the community regarding the establishment and operation of the Ethanol Transloading Facility. The communications, furnished in response to requests made under the Virginia Freedom of Information Act, cover the period from June 20, 2006 at 8 a.m. to May 29, 2008, at 5 p.m.

E-mail addresses and telephone numbers have been redacted to protect the privacy of residents and of City staff whose home and mobile phone numbers were included on the communications. To contact City officials or staff, please use the links on the left side of this page, or Contact Us.


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Re: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria


  • To: "McNeil, Doug" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,Rich_Baier/Alex%Alex
  • Subject: Re: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria
  • From: Adam_Thiel/Alex%ALEX
  • Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 19:13:48 -0400
  • Cc: Sarah_Graham/Alex%ALEX,"Lawson David" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,"Jordan, A. Gayle" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,"Edwards, John, V" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,"Webb, Mike" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,"Chapman, Robin C." <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,"Wingo, William B." <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,"City Attorney Ignacio Pessoa" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>,"George McAndrews" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>,"Michele Evans" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>,"Jim Hartmann" <text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting>
  • Importance: Normal

Doug, et al.:

Does this mean NS will or will not apply for the haul permit required by City ordinance?

While we certainly appreciate the willingness to share information with the community, compliance with the City ordinance is paramount.

Just clarifying...

Thanks!

Adam


----- Original Message -----
From: "McNeil, Doug" [xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx]
Sent: 05/15/2008 02:57 PM AST
To: Rich Baier; Adam Thiel
Cc: Sarah Graham; Lawson David <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Jordan, A. Gayle" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Edwards, John, V" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Webb, Mike" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Chapman, Robin C." <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Wingo, William B." <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>
Subject: RE: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in Alexandria



Adam Thiel/Rich Baier

In an effort to share information with the community Norfolk Southern
will provide to the City of Alexandria's TES office all of the
information normally required for a hauler permit and the information
normally required for a Storm Water Plan.  As discussed on the
conference call, it is anticipated that trucks will only be moving on
Alexandria streets between the ethanol transloading facility and the
I-95 Van Dorn Street Interchange 173 and will not traverse other city
streets.  The primary route will be via Metro Road to Van Dorn Street.
Current volume is 16 trucks per day and is projected to increase to
approximately 30 trucks per day, however this could vary significantly
depending on ethanol supplier distribution decisions.  Please refer to
my May 7 letter regarding the hours of operation.  We have begun working
on the storm water information, but we expect this will take another 2-3
weeks to complete.

Douglas P. McNeil
Director Government & Distribution Services
Norfolk Southern Corporation
Three Commercial Place
Norfolk, VA 23510
xxx-xxx-xxxx

-----Original Message-----
From: text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting [text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting]
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2008 11:15 AM
To: Edwards, John, V; text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
Cc: text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting; McNeil, Doug; Lawson David; Jordan, A.
Gayle; Webb, Mike; Chapman, Robin C.; text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting;
Wingo, William B.
Subject: RE: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in
Alexandria

Thanks for the note---Ignacio Pessoa, the City Atty., has made this
interpretation so I will copy him and allow him to address your
questions.
Rich





Richard J. Baier, P.E.
Director
Transportation and Environmental Services
City of Alexandria
301 King Street
Alexandria, VA 22314
xxx-xxx-xxxx
Fax: xxx-xxx-xxxx




             "Edwards, John,

             V"

             <john.edwards@nsc
To
             orp.com>                  text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting,

                                       "Jordan, A. Gayle"

             05/13/2008 10:47          <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,

             AM                        text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting,

                                       text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting


cc
                                       Lawson David
<xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,
                                       "McNeil, Doug"

                                       <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>, "Webb,
Mike"
                                       <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>, "Chapman,

                                       Robin C."

                                       <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>,
"Wingo,
                                       William B."

                                       <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>


Subject
                                       RE: Remaining Issues at NSRC's

                                       Ethanol Transloading Facility in

                                       Alexandria

















Mr. Baier:

Thank you for your e-mail.  I take the opportunity to respond on behalf
of
Norfolk Southern.

With regard to the city ordinance, unfortunately we read it a bit
differently.  We outline many of our thoughts on this issue below.
Perhaps
after reviewing this, we could arrange a discussion on this with the
City
Attorney.  We thank you for your attention to this matter, and look
forward
to working out any remaining issues.

Section 5-2-27 applies to the hauling of:

         (a)     "waste materials of any type"
         (b)     "building or construction supplies, materials or
         equipment" and
         (c)     "dirt, debris or fill of any type."

(Obviously, under this construction, this provision may apply to the
construction of the Woodrow Wilson Bridge, to the extent it applies to
the
hauling of "building or construction supplies, materials or equipment",
and
that application is not relevant to any discussion of the hauling of
ethanol.)  As I stated below, this section does not apply because it
does
not fit into any of these categories.  I note that your understanding is
that Section 5-2-27 should be read otherwise, so that the word
"materials"
would be read as a separate category, and that this category would
include
ethanol.  We believe this is a fatally flawed interpretation of Section
5-2-27.  In essence, your reading of Section 5-2-27 would have it
applying
to the hauling of:

         (a)     "waste materials of any type"
         (b)     "building or construction supplies"
         (c)     "materials"
         (d)     "equipment" and
         (e)     "dirt, debris or fill of any type."

If that were the reading, and if somehow that listing were allowed to be
interpreted to include ethanol, then there would be no limit whatsoever
to
what Section 5-2-27 applies.  There would be no principled reason to
read
out of the provision a host of consumer, wholesale and retail
"materials"
such as glue, paper and ink cartridges to grocery stores and office
supply
stores, paint to hobby stores, and helium to party supply stores.  (Even
if
this was the reading of the provision, which it is not, the section
would
again apply to certain aspects of the hauling of "building or
construction
supplies" and so apply to certain aspects of the construction of the
Woodrow Wilson Bridge, further making that analogy without
significance.)
Some of the haulers of these other non-construction/demolition materials
may need to obtain permits (such as those hauling helium - we are no
expert
on whether that requires a city permit or not), but certainly the City
does
not require these haulers to obtain a permit under this section, which
is
entitled "Hauling of waste materials, construction materials, etc.,
prohibited."

Our interpretation of this provision is further reinforced by the
additional provisions, and interpretations, found on the City of
Alexandria's website that clearly indicate that the provision really is
meant to apply to hauling to and from construction and demolition sites.
Quoted from the following website:
http://alexandriava.gov/tes/info/default.aspx?id=3456#hauling.

"Required when five (5) or more loads of ... building or construction
supplies, materials or equipment of any type...."  And "No dirt, mud or
debris shall be tracked/spilled onto the public right-of-way."


Hauling
Required when five (5) or more loads of waste materials of any type,
building or construction supplies, materials or equipment of any type,
or
dirt, debris or fill of any type will be hauled into or out of a site
within any consecutive thirty (30) day period. No dirt, mud or debris
shall
be tracked/spilled onto the public right-of-way. The hauling route will
be
determined by this office. Submit request on Application for Hauling
Permit
.
Finally, even if the hauling permit did apply to the facility, which it
does not, the ordinance would constitute a permit that is applicable to
a
railroad facility that, if denied, would have the effect of regulating
rail
transportation.

John V. Edwards
Senior General Attorney
Norfolk Southern Corporation
Three Commercial Place
Norfolk, VA 23510
xxx-xxx-xxxx
xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx


From: text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting [text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting]
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 6:26 PM
To: Jordan, A. Gayle; text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting;
text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
Cc: Lawson David; McNeil, Doug; Webb, Mike; Edwards, John, V
Subject: Re: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility in
Alexandria



Thanks for the note and as I  am sending information it is only a cover
letter and the ordinance section scanned in and sent on Friday. Per the
city attorney the ordinance  section that lists the materials noted
below
does not contain an exhaustive or exclusive listing. It is an exemplary
in
nature and it is being applied to projects like the Woodrow wilson
bridge
and the like. I hope this clarifies. I think the preemption issue is
certainly correct outside of the right of way as the city owns its roads
outright unlike most  other jurisdictions in the country.



  From: "Jordan, A. Gayle" [xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx]
  Sent: 05/12/2008 05:07 PM AST
  To: Sarah Graham; Rich Baier; Adam Thiel
  Cc: Lawson David <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "McNeil, Doug"
<xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Webb, Mike" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>; "Edwards, John,
V"
<xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>
  Subject: RE: Remaining Issues at NSRC's Ethanol Transloading Facility
in
Alexandria

Hello. I am responding on behalf of Norfolk Southern on the hauler
permit
and storm water issues which were raised during our Friday afternoon
conference call. I do not have all the email addresses of the others on
the
call from the City so I ask that you forward this response to them.

I have reviewed Section 5-2-27 and don't see how that provision applies
to
trucks hauling ethanol since ethanol is neither a waste material,
construction supply, construction material, construction equipment,
dirt,
debris nor fill.
The facility aspect in (d) would also fail on two counts as ethanol tank
trucks would not be covered and given the railroad's ICCTA preemption
over
local permits.  I understand Mr. Baier is going to send me some more
information later this week, and we will of course consider what is
presented.

As for the storm water plan, the state storm water requirements do not
apply to this operation. This has been confirmed again with outside
counsel. Nonetheless, in a spirit of cooperation Norfolk Southern will
prepare a storm water plan for the facility.

I understand that Fire Chief Thiel is working up a revised ethanol
fire/spill response list and will send us spec and vendor information .
With this additional information in hand we will advise as the
railroad's
position on the 450 truck.

Thank you for forwarding my email to the others.  Gayle Jordan

From: text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
[text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting]
Sent: Friday, May 09, 2008 4:27 PM
To: xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx; text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
Cc: text converted to image to prevent junkmail harvesting
Subject:

Good afternoon,

I send this on Rich Baier's behalf. He will follow with a letter next
week.






Sarah Graham
Secretary II
T&ES Administration
City of Alexandria
xxx-xxx-xxxx